sweating copper pipes

[[JiF]KellysHero]

I tackled my first real copper pipe repair today. I'd accidentally hit a 1/2" hot water supply line with my reciprocating saw while taking up a subfloor in my bathroom. Didn't actually leak, but didn't want to take the chance on it deteriorating and leaking later on down the line. The knick was right at the joist, so I had to cut about 6 inches on either side and couple the pipe back in two places, so four solder points were used. Did use the trick of sticking a piece of bread into the pipe to absorb some of the excess water flowing back.

Cleaned the insides of the couplings, emery clothed the outside of both ends of the pipe, and used a wire brush on the inside of the pipe, plus fluxed all the joints. I made sure not to touch the cleaned parts of the joints with my bare hands after that. After soldering I wiped the joints down with a damp rag, although did end up with a bit of solder blob on the bottom of one joint.

With the water main back on, there doesn't appear to be any leaks. So if it isn't leaking now, how likely is it to leak later on down the line? The only other concern I have is when I made all the connections there was a slight bend in the pipe of a couple degrees.

[Graham Cracka]

If it does not leak when you flex it a little, it should be good. It looks like you got plenty of solder into the joints. Did you have any problems with the water dripping or steam blowing the solder out on your last joint? If not you should be OK. The bend in the pipe should not be a concern since it is not visible under the floor boards. Only you and the people that view this post will know that it is not straight.

[[JiF]FrenchAfroman]

i'll never go over to kellysheros's place, cause his bathroom pipe is bend

[[JiF]Bier]

Sounds like you did everything correctly accept for one thing you did not mention . Did you Ream out the copper pipe after you cut the pipe ? according to the plumbing code all pipe must be reamed after being cut . Ream all cut tube ends to the full inside diameter of the tube to remove the small burr created by the cutting operation . If this rough ,inside edge is not removed by reaming, erosion- corrosion may occur due to local turbulence & increased local flow velocity in the tube . A properly reamed piece of tube provides a smooth surface for better flow of the water in the pipe . Remove any burrs on the outside of the tube ends , created by the cutting operation , to ensure proper entrance of the tube into the fitting cup . out in the field I've seen & repaired a lot of copper lines since the person who installed the pipe did not ream out the pipe . the pipe fails over time due to the turbulence created by the burr as the water passes by the burr created by the tubing cutter wheel . also something else to keep in mind always allow the completed joint to cool naturally . Shock cooling with water may Stress the joint . other than that looks like you did an ok job .


your friendly [JiF] Licensed Plumber Bier

[[JiF]KellysHero]

Sounds like you did everything correctly accept for one thing you did not mention . Did you Ream out the copper pipe after you cut the pipe ? according to the plumbing code all pipe must be reamed after being cut . Ream all cut tube ends to the full inside diameter of the tube to remove the small burr created by the cutting operation . If this rough ,inside edge is not removed by reaming, erosion- corrosion may occur due to local turbulence & increased local flow velocity in the tube . A properly reamed piece of tube provides a smooth surface for better flow of the water in the pipe . Remove any burrs on the outside of the tube ends , created by the cutting operation , to ensure proper entrance of the tube into the fitting cup . out in the field I've seen & repaired a lot of copper lines since the person who installed the pipe did not ream out the pipe . the pipe fails over time due to the turbulence created by the burr as the water passes by the burr created by the tubing cutter wheel . also something else to keep in mind always allow the completed joint to cool naturally . Shock cooling with water may Stress the joint . other than that looks like you did an ok job .


your friendly [JiF] Licensed Plumber Bier

Thanks for the tips Bier. I didn't have a pipe reamer, but did use a wire brush, like the one below to clean out the ID. Is that sufficient?

-- Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:55 pm --

I also used one of these to make the cut and it seemed like it made a very clean cut.

[[JiF]Bier]

If you don't have a reamer a pocket knife will work just fine or a half -round or round file. the fitting brush probably didn't remove all of the burr but did remove some & it should be OK . did you feel the inside of the pipe to see if it felt smooth with no burrs left ? the tubing cutter wheel causes the burr as it cuts the pipe the wheel of the cutter forms a small lip on the inside of the pipe .

[[JiF]corn]

Glad you posted this Kelly and Bier.
I need to do some work myself and it's been 15 years since i've done this kinda stuff.
In trade school we used fine sandpaper and a wire brush similar to the one shown.

[Sir Die-a-lot]

As Bier stated, let the job cool naturally before wiping it with a damp cloth. And do wipe it to remove excess flux residue that will corrode the pipe in the long run. Old copper pipes should be dark brown with no green oxide on them.

[[JiF]KellysHero]

I checked the cut pieces and there is a lip all the way around the pipe from the cutting tool. When I get home tonight I'll try and see how much of it would have been knocked down by the wire brush, but more than likely I'll redo it. This repair will be covered by a tile floor and access for a repair if it did blow out would be through the ceiling on the floor below.

A friend of mine told me about the (new to me) quick connect fittings that are out now and available at Home Depot or Lowes. Just cut, clean and slide the pipe in and you are good to go. Attached is the picture of one type (not sure if it is the one carried). For major projects, these would get expensive, but for a small repair, should be good.

Any thoughts on these?

[[JiF]Bier]

Here is a pic of what can happen to the inside of a copper pipe caused by the turbulence of the burr left by the cutting tool when you don't ream your copper pipe.
this doesnt happen over night it takes time ,it doesn't show up till years later. notice the pin holes that the turbulence causes .& also it is caused by
joints and turns in the copper piping. Water will swirl when it reaches & passes a joint and due to the swirling it slowly eats away the inside of your pipe. This is why a pin hole leak occurs .

[[JiF]KellysHero]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us Bier!

[Sir Die-a-lot]

Kelly, even if you use the grip fittings you'll have to deburr you pipe end. All pipes cut with a wheel cutter will see metal forced to the inside diameter by the wheel pressure, hence the deburring operation required.

Same goes if you cut with a saw.

[[JiF]Lonewolf]

That's why I use plastic. I stopped using copper years ago because it got to expensive around here and it also took twice as much work to put in then plastic.

[[JiF]KellysHero]

Well the joint has held this long, so I'm happy with the sweating part. Still debating about the potential for any burrs left in there though. My father in law doesn't seem to think it is that big of a deal. While he's not a plumber, he is an experienced DIY'er. The parts are in hand though, so I may just redo it for my own piece of mind.

For anyone else thinking of doing some work, check out the Sharkbite fittings in the link below. They work for copper and approved for unaccessable areas. They have them at Home Depot and I played around with them in the store. These are like the quick connect tubing connectors I use in the lab, and I haven't seen them leak when properly set.

http://www.cashacme.com/prod_sharkbite_ ... oducts.php

They are expensive though, about $6 for a 1/2" coupler, and $11 for an extra long coupler to repair knicks and very short runs, ~2" (it'll slide over the pipe so you can couple them. If I had known about them before, I could have easily cut the very short part of the pipe with the knick in it, and used the $11 fitting. The knick was right by the floor joist, and I couldn't solder there.

Now the two fittings I need are only 42 cents each, plus you'll need solder, flux and a torch.